A New Roof and Why You Always Get the Price First

When I bought my house, the inspector noted that there was some water damage on the front porch ceiling (it was obvious) and that there was a leak in the roof, but otherwise the roof looked good.  I interviewed several general contractors that said the same.  When I decided to just hire individual subs, I had five different companies come out and take a look.  ALL of them told me I needed a new roof.  ALL of them gave me the same reason:  the shingles had been stretched too much, they didn't overlap the way they were supposed too and if it wasn't already causing problems, I may soon have water damage.  So a new roof it was.

The company I had come in to do it was pretty good.  They finished in about a week and called me nearly every business day to let me know how it was going.  On the walk through before the job started, the roofer, John, warned me that most likely my front porch roof would have to be reframed.  This was no big surprise to me and he said it would be fairly straight forward.  I stopped by the house at various stages of the project and saw that they put on a lot of new wood.  Apparently I would have had quite a few leaks.  As it happens I found one in my bathroom a few days before they were set to start the roof.  I only noticed it because the ceiling in the bathroom is completely stripped.  It was a pretty substantial leak and probably one of the reasons the demo of that ceiling was so gross.

Work in progress.

The front porch did need a complete reframe.

As we were walking around discussing the project, he asked me what I wanted to do with the porch ceiling, as well as the ceiling of the two overhangs he would be building on the back of the house over the doors.  He said there were a variety of different options.  He suggested a nice bead board, which "would only cost a little more".  I agreed, because I knew it would look nice.

As they were finishing up the project, I called them one day to get the number of the flooring guy John had recommended a while before.  I needed him to fix the subfloor in my bathroom.  While I was on the phone, the woman in the office told me she had my change order and that she could read it off or send it to me.  I asked her to do both, and was stunned with the number she gave.  My roof cost had gone up by 60%!  She told me there had been a lot more repairs on the roof than expected, and I had seen a lot of new wood.  Looking at the change order, I nearly had a coronary.  It had the cost of the wood for repairs, which was acceptable; they costs for the porch repair, also expected, and one bit of horor--380 feet of bead-board for $1900!  That was just for the front porch.  The back overhangs were an additional $500 total.  Figuring the measurement of the boards must be wrong, I called the office. She checked with John, the numbers were right.  I let her know that John had told me it would "not be that much more" and that if I had known it would cost this much there was absolutely no way I would have done it.  She tried to stay positive and chipper.  She was jealous that I had it, she just had cheap imitation stuff at her house.  Yeah, that's because this crap is too freaking expensive!!  Not making me feel better, lady.

I called back after a few minutes when I thought to ask if they had actually done the work.  She said someone had been working on "siding" all day at the house, and by now it was 3pm.  Since there is no siding on my house, I knew he had to be working on the bead-board.  She called and checked.  They had finished the front porch, but had run out of materials (that you Jesus!) and hadn't done the back.  I told her not to do it and again mentioned that I wouldn't have done it had I known the cost.

She called back after a bit and told me that John would give me a 10% discount on the change order, and that would about cover the cost of the bead-board, or I could just not have them finish.  I asked for both:  the discount and to halt work.  That would save me nearly $1000.  She had to check with John.

She called back.  I could do both if I wanted.  Also, he could use a different wood that would only cost $250 to install (so I guess when he said it would cost "a little more", what he meant was double, but I digress).  She told me that  John would prefer to finish with the bead board as it would look nicer.  I was able to restrain myself from saying if he liked it so much he could pay for it. I opted just to paint the exposed wood from the roof and be done.  Now my roof is nice and sturdy and should last for as long as I'm in my house.  They also took all the construction demo I had in the back yard.  All of it!  It took  me a minute to notice, but it was pretty awesome.

In case you were curious, this is what a $2000 ceiling looks like.

And that kids is why we always get the price first... preferably in writing.

Seriously?!

I decided to hire the general contractor one of the stucco guys suggested to me.  I opted not to sign on for him to do the whole thing, but to have him start with the finishing demo of my bathroom, the final removal of the wall between my kitchen and dining area, framing out the living room ceiling, the removal of the chimney, and the install of my two back doors.

As for the chimney, I had exposed it, and spent several hours in my attic chiseling the top 2.5 ft of it.  The chimney didn't actually go through the roof, so I was able to do it, but my attic is pretty cramped and it was quite a bit of time up there and several trips down the ladder with a few bricks at a time.

 The ceiling in the living room was framed out to be ready for a fan box and drywall.

 Notice the finished out skylight area.  The skylight will be filled in by the roofer, and the drywall and framing will likely remain in my attic indefinitely.  The demo in the bathroom was also completed, toilet moved, tub taken out, floor removed.

After this demo, I figured out why there was a crack in the tile floor.  You can't tell in the picture, but the plywood in the first third of the bathroom floor is actually about 1/4 to 1/2 inch higher than the other floor.  My guess is they tried to level the tiles just by adding more of the compound under the tile, which didn't work for long and caused the crack.

The contractor also framed out the ceiling in the bathroom (it was pretty well termite eaten) so that the electrician could add the light over the shower.

As a side note, my bathroom is going to be the brightest in San Diego.  At only 5'x8' with a light above the sink, a light over the shower, a window and a skylight, it will glow on a sunny day.

So far, so good.  So what's with the title of the post?  Well, it all has to do with the wall between the kitchen and dining.  I had brought in a structural engineer to find out once and for all if the wall was load bearing.  He told me it did not bear the weight of the roof, but the ceiling joists above it were perpendicular and were a pretty long span.  It would be best if I had a header or inserted a beam into the ceiling.  From a distance, it looks great.  There is support on either side of the beam, and the beam looks good.

Up close is another matter.

 This is one of my ceiling joists.  Notice it seems to get narrower.  Yeah, that's because my genius contractor didn't have the proper sized brackets and instead of going out and getting the right size, he decided to shave down the joists.  Significantly.  We're talking a half inch plus.  He did this for nine different brackets.  NINE!!     Seriously, who does that?!  How is that ok?!  I had agreed to have this guy redo my plumbing before I saw this.  Needless to say, I decided it would be best he not do my plumbing.  Unfortunately, I wasn't able to confront him the way I wanted to, with an "Are you freaking kidding me with this?!" as he still had to install my doors and I didn't want him to mess with them.  Instead I had to pull the stupid girl card.  "Sorry, but I ran out of money, blah, blah.  Have to talk to my parents/grandparents, blah."  I hated having to do it, but it was better than having him try to do the same sort of "making it work" with my plumbing.

Kitchen demo

Well hello. Yes, I know it has been two months.  I know that everyone has been asking if I even still HAVE the  house.  While I have gotten a handwritten letter from a Realtor offering to buy my house (true story), I am still the proud owner of a small home in San Diego, CA.  So what have I done in the last two months?  Actually quite a bit.  

Before I started the electrical, my friend Diana and I tackled more demo, taking down the kitchen.  We took down the upper cabinets first.  I had to cut around a light box that had been installed above the sink.

Next we got the counters and base cabinets with a variety of tools.  The goal was to get the biggest chunk of tile we could.  I can't remember who won, but that tile was really heavy.

Not sure what I'm planning on hitting here, but look how much we had done!  We were pretty much covered in tile debris by the time we were done.

We left the sink, because I wanted a sink in the house, but I  later came back and removed it (that thing weighed a ton) as well as the lower section of plaster.  The electritians were coming the next week and openinng it up made it easier for them.

You might notice that the sink is still under the window.  I had no idea how to remove it, so I just put a bucket under it and left a note for the electricians that the water was still on (so the toilet would still work).  I had only knocked it on twice while removing the drywall.  In all it was a productive few days.

ATTC: Episode 6, The end

It's never really the end, but for the sake of time and letting everyone know what's going on at the house, we'll make this the end of this story.  I was strongly leaning toward the Pete's.  I liked the effort they put in at the start and their willingness to work with me.  As the process went on, I was trying to hammer down all the details, no small task on a project this big.  I asked a few times for things to be added to or removed from the bid and there were some things that were consistently ignored.  After asking about the bathroom window three times without any acknowledgement of it from them, I was starting to lose faith.  The final straw was when I asked about the permits for the project and he told me that I would not need any permits.  Ok.  Done.  That's it, thanks for playing, but pass.  I believe the last communication with the Pete's was my e-mail asking if I really didn't need permits.  I didn't get a response, but I didn't press the issue because I was done with them and back to hiring individual subs.

I met with various subs:  electricians, plumbers, stucco guys, roofers, window guys, and got an idea of the cost (a lot).  I even met with another general who I liked a bit, but his round about refusal to let me meet with the electrician put me off.  He would not give me his name and said I would deal with him (the general) as far as the placement of plugs, switches, etc.  I was annoyed because I would much rather deal with the electrician straight up than have to go through a middle man, but also a little suspicious that his electrician might be one I already met with (who I had been referred to by the same guy as the general) whose bid was lower than the general's.  Ultimately, that and the fact that his overall number was too high brought me back to subs and I hired an electrician the next day.

Now most of the rough in is done!  He's just waiting for a few framing things that I need to do.  I will likely have the general I met with last do that work (that's what I called him for in the first place anyway).

I was hoping to have Christmas decorations there this year, but I don't think I'll be able to do that.  I'm still pushing for that, though.  We'll see how it goes and I'll let you know.

Once you start, it's hard to stop

Demo really is addictive.  After the kitchen wall, I wanted to take down the entertainment center in the living room.

My friend Nicole came over and was the dedicated smasher, while I did a lot of the transport of the removed materials.

In all we were completely done in about 40 minutes.  I was impressed.

The thing was only secured to the wall in about 6 places.  A few screws unscrewed and a few well placed hammer strikes and it was done.

The next day I decided to take down the rest of the bathroom walls.  This took a lot more effort, but it was satisfying to get it all done.

I was also excited I could take it down and not damage my new toilet.  Because of all the termite droppings and possible moisture damage I found at the top of the wall, I will take down the ceiling soon as well.

And for good measure, I got a reminder of why I need a full rewire of the house.

I don't know the exact application for electrical tape, but I know it is not the way it was done in the walls of my house.

Down with walls

You may remember that there is a wall dividing my tiny kitchen from my small dining area.  My plan was to remove it.  See it here on the left.

The plan was to remove the back half of it, from the doorway back.  Here's a view from in the kitchen.

With all the back and forth I was doing with the contractors, I just figured I'd start the wall demo myself.  Dad took a day off work and we brought the tools to take the wall down.

The wall is make of plaster and a knotted backer board and it weighs a ton.  A 2ft by 2ft section probably weighs 15 pounds.  We had to take it down in small sections and had to be careful not to let it slam on the hardwood floors.

You might notice all the cardboard in the foreground (though it is buried pretty well under plaster).  The finished product looked pretty good.  We left a bit of it because we weren't 100% sure that it was not load bearing.

Here's hoping it's not, because if it is we probably should have left the door frame in.  I have a structural engineer coming out soon to let me know for certain.

I also decided to open the window back up into the bathroom.

 

It didn't take too long but it did leave a big mess in the tub.

We brought some plywood from home and screwed it on the outside of the house to block the giant hole we had reopened.

The fun story of the day regards this tiny little thing.

When we got there, it was a one foot section of copper pipe that had been folded over onto the floor.  In the process of taking the wall, a chunk of plaster fell on it an dented it further, right at the floor level.  While cleaning, Dad bent it back and being thin copper, it immediately broke and started spraying water into the kitchen.  I ran and turned the water off to the house and we decided it was a good time to break for lunch.  We stopped by Home Depot on our way back and spent 15 minutes trying to secure this on the end of the pipe, that was now deformed and level with the floor.  That whole time my job was to hold the tiny bit of pipe above the floor, because if I let go it would pop under the floor and the only way to get to it would be to crawl under the house.  Good times!  Fortunately it didn't come to that and after stretching the cramp out of my hand I was able to get back to work.

ATTC, Episode 5: The Phone Call

Ok, so I know that it has been way too long since I have updated my blog.  If there is anyone left that actually checks it, I am sorry for that.  In the next few posts I'm going to try to sum up the last couple months and get you all back up to speed.

One morning, about a week after my last meeting with the different contractors, I received a phone call.  It was a man from a company whose name I didn't recognize, but that seemed to know all about what I needed done on my house.  He listed them off for "your house in La Mesa" and wanted to set up a time for someone to come down and take a look at the projects.  Sitting at the table, listing to the man list off my projects, I got confused.  I asked, "Wait, when did I call you?"
"Oh, we contacted you about a month ago," was the response.
Well that doesn't sound right.  I really didn't think I would have listed off all the projects to some random cold call.  I sat there trying to figure out when they had talked to my dad.  He'll talk to mortgage offer guys for 30 min, so he might have talked about the work I needed to try to get some information about the company.  But the call came to my cell, so they wouldn't have talked to Dad.  As I had the next day off and was going to the house anyway, I agreed to meet with someone.  I set up a time for 11:30am.

Later that day (literally about 2 hours later) I got a call from a woman at the company to confirm my meeting for 11am.  I didn't mentioning that I had set it up for 11:30 because I figured she had misread it, and to be honest I just couldn't be bothered.  I had only been 2 hours, the reminder call seemed ridiculous.  I wondered if she felt as dumb as felt she must.  I don't think she did.

I met with the guy the next day and new instantly where he had gotten my information from.  He looked like he could be the older cousin of the Italian-Israeli.  He even had some of the same stuff to say.  There were a couple times I had to hold in a laugh because it just seemed so obvious that he learned of the project from the first guy.  The best part of the meeting was when he told me that he would guarantee the price he gave me if I signed with him right then.  Yeah, I'll pass thanks.

When I got home I Googled him and looked him up on the CA contractors board website.  According to Google he was involved with a company that had it's contractors license revoked for stealing from clients.  Awesome! Also, he was currently listed as an employee for a couple different companies on the contractors board site, most of which had the same list of employees.  The company the Italian-Israeli worked for was one of those that had all the same staff!

There were even two more run-ins.  I inadvertantly set up a meeting with a third of the group for about a week later.  They called about my heating and at that time the Pete's were talking about that as well, so I thought the caller might be the Petes' guy.  When he got there, he appeared to be the older uncle Italian-Israeli.  I walked him around for a bit, but was over it fast.  His plan seemed to be just to stay in the house until I signed.  I basically had to push him out after 45 min, when my walking around, closing windows and locking doors didn't seem enough of a cue.

After that meeting, I was done.  When I got a call a few weeks later from another company whose name sounded familiar, I was not interested.  He tried to tell me I had called two months before (long enough that I might not remember) and he just didn't want to seem pushy, so he hadn't called before then.  I was short and to the point, telling him I did not need a contractor.  When I got home I looked up the company name, and sure enough it was one that shared staff with the others, including the fraud guy.